## QUESTION ABOUT STUDYING MATHEMATICS IN EUROPE AND U.S.

### QUESTION ABOUT STUDYING MATHEMATICS IN EUROPE AND U.S.

HI,

I AM AN INDIAN STUDENT STUDYING IN INDIA FINAL YEAR B.TECH IN ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING. I WANT TO DO MY MASTERS AND PHD IN MATHEMATICS AFTER B.TECH. I HAVE BEEN STUDYING UNDERGRADUATE LEVEL MATHEMATICS ON MY OWN AND AM PREPARING FOR GRE SUBJECT TEST IN MATHEMATICS.

BUT I AM COMPLETELY UNKNOWN OF HOW TO STUDY IN EUROPE OR U.S. SO PLEASE HELP ME WITH FEW INFOS ABOUT UNIVERSITIES TO TARGET, REQUIREMENT IN THOSE UNIVERSITIES AND EVERY THING I SHOULD BE KNOWING. U CAN SAY I KNOW MATHEMATICS BUT NOTHING ABOUT WHERE TO STUDY OR HOW TO STUDY.

I AM AN INDIAN STUDENT STUDYING IN INDIA FINAL YEAR B.TECH IN ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING. I WANT TO DO MY MASTERS AND PHD IN MATHEMATICS AFTER B.TECH. I HAVE BEEN STUDYING UNDERGRADUATE LEVEL MATHEMATICS ON MY OWN AND AM PREPARING FOR GRE SUBJECT TEST IN MATHEMATICS.

BUT I AM COMPLETELY UNKNOWN OF HOW TO STUDY IN EUROPE OR U.S. SO PLEASE HELP ME WITH FEW INFOS ABOUT UNIVERSITIES TO TARGET, REQUIREMENT IN THOSE UNIVERSITIES AND EVERY THING I SHOULD BE KNOWING. U CAN SAY I KNOW MATHEMATICS BUT NOTHING ABOUT WHERE TO STUDY OR HOW TO STUDY.

### Re: QUESTION ABOUT STUDYING MATHEMATICS IN EUROPE AND U.S.

When do you wish to study math? It may be a bit late to start Fall 2013, especially if you want funding.

If you wish to begin Fall 2014, you might consider the following. The Math GRE is offered in April, October, and November. The first applications are usually due in December (2013) and many in January (2014). So you may wish to schedule Math GRE tests in October AND November. This will give you much time to study, but you will have your scores before December application due dates. You can choose to submit the higher of the two scores, so if one goes poorly, you still have a chance.

It is definitely possible to do graduate school in the USA or Europe in math with a background in electrical engineering. However, it is crucial that you score well on the GRE Mathematics Advanced Subject Test. This will largely determine which schools are possible. Without a B.A. in math you must prove through the test that you can do well in mathematics. Continue studying hard.

About where to study...this might be a good place to start:

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... s-rankings

Rankings are never perfect. It also depends on the subfield of mathematics. However, it will give you an approximate idea of the perceived quality of schools.

Next you could look at this thread:

http://www.mathematicsgre.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1003

It will give you some data points for admission/rejection to some of these schools. After finding your test score, you can narrow down the range of schools. It is wise to apply to schools of varying quality. Some high up the list and some lower on the list, where you feel certain you will be admitted.

Each university's department webpage offers a more detailed list of application requirements. Yet, the basic requirements are a transcript of grades, GRE General Test, GRE Math Test, and a statement of purpose/goals. Some ask questions specific to the individual university. I would look more carefully at application details around July/August. For now study hard, and if possible take some proof-based math classes.

If you wish to begin Fall 2014, you might consider the following. The Math GRE is offered in April, October, and November. The first applications are usually due in December (2013) and many in January (2014). So you may wish to schedule Math GRE tests in October AND November. This will give you much time to study, but you will have your scores before December application due dates. You can choose to submit the higher of the two scores, so if one goes poorly, you still have a chance.

It is definitely possible to do graduate school in the USA or Europe in math with a background in electrical engineering. However, it is crucial that you score well on the GRE Mathematics Advanced Subject Test. This will largely determine which schools are possible. Without a B.A. in math you must prove through the test that you can do well in mathematics. Continue studying hard.

About where to study...this might be a good place to start:

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... s-rankings

Rankings are never perfect. It also depends on the subfield of mathematics. However, it will give you an approximate idea of the perceived quality of schools.

Next you could look at this thread:

http://www.mathematicsgre.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1003

It will give you some data points for admission/rejection to some of these schools. After finding your test score, you can narrow down the range of schools. It is wise to apply to schools of varying quality. Some high up the list and some lower on the list, where you feel certain you will be admitted.

Each university's department webpage offers a more detailed list of application requirements. Yet, the basic requirements are a transcript of grades, GRE General Test, GRE Math Test, and a statement of purpose/goals. Some ask questions specific to the individual university. I would look more carefully at application details around July/August. For now study hard, and if possible take some proof-based math classes.

### Re: QUESTION ABOUT STUDYING MATHEMATICS IN EUROPE AND U.S.

thanks for replying.. never expected such a quick reply. so u say i shouldn't be hopeless??? actually since the very first day i entered into electrical engineering 4 years ago i knew its not for me.. since then i am upset and utterly confused about what to do.. and thus my grades in college r not quite good. and in Indian education system i m not eligible in most of the institutions. 3 or 4 allows for interview after written test.. i have already given 1 but unfortunately they seem to say i should continue in electrical not mathematics..

### Re: QUESTION ABOUT STUDYING MATHEMATICS IN EUROPE AND U.S.

Yes, there is still hope. As an international student with only average grades and a background in electrical engineering, it may be very, very difficult to be accepted to a top 25 school, even with a high Math GRE.

To gain entry to the best school possible:

-Take as many math classes as possible, especially proof courses.

-Score highly on the Math GRE.

-Consider applied mathematics programs, instead of pure mathematics. Your background might be better for applied mathematics.

-Apply to several schools that admit students with your combination of Math GRE and GPA and lower. Your chances of admission (even with equal MGRE score to a math applicant) are lower because of your major.

-Spend plenty of time crafting your statement of purpose. You might briefly mention that your low grades reflect your desire to be studying math, not electrical engineering.

-Make sure that you get strong letters of recommendation.

To gain entry to the best school possible:

-Take as many math classes as possible, especially proof courses.

-Score highly on the Math GRE.

-Consider applied mathematics programs, instead of pure mathematics. Your background might be better for applied mathematics.

-Apply to several schools that admit students with your combination of Math GRE and GPA and lower. Your chances of admission (even with equal MGRE score to a math applicant) are lower because of your major.

-Spend plenty of time crafting your statement of purpose. You might briefly mention that your low grades reflect your desire to be studying math, not electrical engineering.

-Make sure that you get strong letters of recommendation.

### Re: QUESTION ABOUT STUDYING MATHEMATICS IN EUROPE AND U.S.

Why don't you do really well on the MGRE and go to a crappier school and then transfer? I don't get what the obsession is with the top 25.

### Re: QUESTION ABOUT STUDYING MATHEMATICS IN EUROPE AND U.S.

I NEVER EXPRESSED MY DESIRE TO GET ADMISSION AMONG THE TOP 25 UNIVERSITIES... I ONLY WANT TO GET ADMIT IN SOME GOOD INSTITUTE THAT'S ALL. AND I WANT TO STUDY PURE MATHEMATICS ONLY. I KNOW TOP UNIVERSITIES ARE DIFFICULT TO GET INTO. IT MAY BE DONE AFTER A GOOD PERFORMANCE IN MASTERS. SO CAN U SUGGEST FEW INSTITUTES I SHOULD BE LOOKING FOR... THEY MIGHT NOT BE TOP OF THE LIST BUT SHOULDN'T BE AMONG THE LAST ALSO..

### Re: QUESTION ABOUT STUDYING MATHEMATICS IN EUROPE AND U.S.

Do well on the mgre (80+) and you can probably get into anything outside the top 70.bishutech wrote:I NEVER EXPRESSED MY DESIRE TO GET ADMISSION AMONG THE TOP 25 UNIVERSITIES... I ONLY WANT TO GET ADMIT IN SOME GOOD INSTITUTE THAT'S ALL. AND I WANT TO STUDY PURE MATHEMATICS ONLY. I KNOW TOP UNIVERSITIES ARE DIFFICULT TO GET INTO. IT MAY BE DONE AFTER A GOOD PERFORMANCE IN MASTERS. SO CAN U SUGGEST FEW INSTITUTES I SHOULD BE LOOKING FOR... THEY MIGHT NOT BE TOP OF THE LIST BUT SHOULDN'T BE AMONG THE LAST ALSO..

### Re: QUESTION ABOUT STUDYING MATHEMATICS IN EUROPE AND U.S.

Firstly, TURN YOUR CAPS LOCK OFF WHILE TYPING. Further, don't create a new thread for essentially the same purpose as a previous thread(which also you made).

Getting back on topic, sorry to be harsh, but you have close to zero chance of getting into a PhD program in Math/applied Math directly. Once the admission committee sees that you have no abstract math coursework, they won't bother looking at the rest of your application and put you directly in the rejection pile. Getting into a MS program abroad will not be too easy either. Your best bet would be to study hard and get into a MSc program in India itself(and then apply for a PhD abroad after that). This too will require a LOT of work from you. I am assuming you know that engineering math is not the same as actual math. (If you have not already done so) pick up standard books on Real Analysis, Abstract Algebra and Topology and learn how to write basic proofs in each of them. Prepare for and give the relevant entrance exams(TIFR, JAM, etc.). You are going to have to be really thorough with this as many places require interviews even for the MSc level admission. Realistically, JAM would be a better choice over TIFR as it is easier.

As I said before, it may sound like I am being too harsh but this is the way things are. I am from India, have done my Bachelors in Engineering(Mechanical) and am now doing a MSc in Math. While admission season is nowhere near over, I can already see the problems while applying to a PhD in applied math in US without a Bachelors in Mathematics. Pure math would be even tougher. I have not applied anywhere in Europe, but from what I understand, it would be easier to get admission there with your background. If you are hell-bent on going abroad directly, apply for Masters programs anywhere in Europe.

Another point which I think needs mentioning: there is a misconception among many engineering circles in India that 'applied math' does not involve any 'abstract' math. This is far from the truth. No applied math PhD program will take you if you have no proof based analysis(at minimum) coursework. Even if you want to get into computational math(as I wish to), a background in abstract math is a must.

Getting back on topic, sorry to be harsh, but you have close to zero chance of getting into a PhD program in Math/applied Math directly. Once the admission committee sees that you have no abstract math coursework, they won't bother looking at the rest of your application and put you directly in the rejection pile. Getting into a MS program abroad will not be too easy either. Your best bet would be to study hard and get into a MSc program in India itself(and then apply for a PhD abroad after that). This too will require a LOT of work from you. I am assuming you know that engineering math is not the same as actual math. (If you have not already done so) pick up standard books on Real Analysis, Abstract Algebra and Topology and learn how to write basic proofs in each of them. Prepare for and give the relevant entrance exams(TIFR, JAM, etc.). You are going to have to be really thorough with this as many places require interviews even for the MSc level admission. Realistically, JAM would be a better choice over TIFR as it is easier.

As I said before, it may sound like I am being too harsh but this is the way things are. I am from India, have done my Bachelors in Engineering(Mechanical) and am now doing a MSc in Math. While admission season is nowhere near over, I can already see the problems while applying to a PhD in applied math in US without a Bachelors in Mathematics. Pure math would be even tougher. I have not applied anywhere in Europe, but from what I understand, it would be easier to get admission there with your background. If you are hell-bent on going abroad directly, apply for Masters programs anywhere in Europe.

Another point which I think needs mentioning: there is a misconception among many engineering circles in India that 'applied math' does not involve any 'abstract' math. This is far from the truth. No applied math PhD program will take you if you have no proof based analysis(at minimum) coursework. Even if you want to get into computational math(as I wish to), a background in abstract math is a must.

### Re: QUESTION ABOUT STUDYING MATHEMATICS IN EUROPE AND U.S.

sorry for the caps on.. now as you faced nearly the same condition as i m facing so i would like to know more about u.. and i know the difference between engineering maths and pure maths. i have been studying all the books and subjects required for b.sc. and already given tifr and jam.. tifr didnt went well... jam went good. also i m preparing for isi and cmi.. but you know the condition.. in india no body welcomes a electrical or mechanical engineers to do masters in maths. perhaps i should have taken cse... but doesnt mater now. lets see what can be done.. and the previous post was 2 years back when i just wanted to know if i can switch my major or not. and this is about how to switch.. but as u said i m deleting the previous post.

### Re: QUESTION ABOUT STUDYING MATHEMATICS IN EUROPE AND U.S.

Switching from Engineering to Mathematics although not common, is nowhere near unheard of in India. I know of a couple of other people who have done the same.

As I mentioned earlier, getting into a PhD program is close to impossible. Even if you somehow do manage to get in, it would not make much sense as you do not know which area of mathematics you want to get into.

Since you have already applied for an MSc in India and there is nothing more you can do but wait, I shall give you two cents on doing a Masters abroad. Again this may sound harsh, but I am just saying it as it is. With your background getting admission for a funded Masters will be extremely tough. If you want to do a MS abroad, you should be ready to shell out a lot of money(/take big loans). From what I gather you still can apply to a few place in Europe, but it is too late for US for Fall 2013 admission. For US, you should give the Mathematics subject GRE, which is held only once a year, in November. This would even make it impossible to apply for Spring 2014. So your only option is Fall 2014. Further, you will need to give the general GRE and TOEFL.

So there isn't much you can do now except keep studying as much math as you can. Assuming you get in somewhere in India, my advice would be that one of the (original seven) IITs is a better choice because you would get more people with a similar background as you. Of course, ISI and CMI are much better in every aspect, but it may be tough to cope up there.

A little tip for after your possible MSc, (for a PhD) apply mainly in Europe. I have my reasons for not doing so, but I am slowly starting to regret it. If you have any further questions, feel free to ask.

As I mentioned earlier, getting into a PhD program is close to impossible. Even if you somehow do manage to get in, it would not make much sense as you do not know which area of mathematics you want to get into.

Since you have already applied for an MSc in India and there is nothing more you can do but wait, I shall give you two cents on doing a Masters abroad. Again this may sound harsh, but I am just saying it as it is. With your background getting admission for a funded Masters will be extremely tough. If you want to do a MS abroad, you should be ready to shell out a lot of money(/take big loans). From what I gather you still can apply to a few place in Europe, but it is too late for US for Fall 2013 admission. For US, you should give the Mathematics subject GRE, which is held only once a year, in November. This would even make it impossible to apply for Spring 2014. So your only option is Fall 2014. Further, you will need to give the general GRE and TOEFL.

So there isn't much you can do now except keep studying as much math as you can. Assuming you get in somewhere in India, my advice would be that one of the (original seven) IITs is a better choice because you would get more people with a similar background as you. Of course, ISI and CMI are much better in every aspect, but it may be tough to cope up there.

A little tip for after your possible MSc, (for a PhD) apply mainly in Europe. I have my reasons for not doing so, but I am slowly starting to regret it. If you have any further questions, feel free to ask.

### Re: QUESTION ABOUT STUDYING MATHEMATICS IN EUROPE AND U.S.

I really think he can get into some MS program if it's outside the top 70 provided he does really well on the MGRE and has a good SOP. I mean the people at these places have very little coursework plus crappy MGREs so I don't see why he wouldn't get in if he destroys them on the MGRE and explains his situation thoroughly in his SOP.

### Re: QUESTION ABOUT STUDYING MATHEMATICS IN EUROPE AND U.S.

I too am an engineer (telecomm, passed out in Aug 2012) from India interested in an MS in Applied Mathematics. I have never been able to gauge the difficulties in applying to the right universities until I came upon this thread (Maybe it should've been titled, "Engg. student from India seeking advice on studying Math abroad"?). I have already applied to few top US universities and this post leaves me in distress.

I'm wondering if there can be a quick evaluation of my profile?

Purdue - Rejected on 22 Feb

Illinois - UC - Rejected 20 Feb

Ohio State - Pending

University of Maryland - Pending

Minnesota - Twin Cities - Pending

Georgia Tech - Pending

Texas A&M - Pending

Arizona State - Pending

University of Pennsylvania - Pending

Also, I'd very much appreciate it if someone could recommend decent European Universities that I have a very good chance of getting into? I hope its not too late to apply. I'm terribly interested in mathematical modelling. I have experience in parallel computing and would like to go along the lines of modelling and simluation (in the fields of biology and finance).

Any other kind of advice is also welcome.

I'm wondering if there can be a quick evaluation of my profile?

**GPA:**9.12/10**Type of Student:**International (India), Female**GRE Revised General Test:****Q:**164 (90%)**V:**157 (73%)**W:**4.0 (49%)**GRE Subject Test in Mathematics:****M:**560 (27%) (I knew I wouldn't score well but not this badly. Obviously because I couldn't tackle questions from Asbstract Algebra, Real analysis)**TOEFL Score:**(112 = R29/L29/S24/W30)**Program Applying:**Applied Math**Research Experience:**Currently working as a research assistant at the IISc (Indian Institute of Science). Working in modelling of collective behavior for the past 5 months.**Awards:**The NTSE State Scholorship from 10th grade, Best Paper Award from an international conference (paper published was based on my final year project at the IISc on image processing)**Any Miscellaneous Points that Might Help:**One recommender is my project guide at IIsc. Does that help?**Any Other Info That Shows Up On Your App and Might Matter:**Into Indian classical music (Recently appeared for an exam equivalent to an MA. Do extra curricular activities matter?)**Applying to Where:**(Applied math programs in all universities)Purdue - Rejected on 22 Feb

Illinois - UC - Rejected 20 Feb

Ohio State - Pending

University of Maryland - Pending

Minnesota - Twin Cities - Pending

Georgia Tech - Pending

Texas A&M - Pending

Arizona State - Pending

University of Pennsylvania - Pending

Also, I'd very much appreciate it if someone could recommend decent European Universities that I have a very good chance of getting into? I hope its not too late to apply. I'm terribly interested in mathematical modelling. I have experience in parallel computing and would like to go along the lines of modelling and simluation (in the fields of biology and finance).

Any other kind of advice is also welcome.