Fall 2020 Sweat Thread

[AugmentedSeventh]

On a slightly unrelated note, why do some people delete their admission profile after receiving their offers? Is it because they are afraid of losing their anonymity? I am genuinely curious, not trying to call anyone out

[EricAndre]

Don't want to start a debate but the MGRE is more heavily overlooked if you are a female, at least from reading the application history. If you are a male, then I'm impressed.

It’s also more readily overlooked when the applicant is from a prestigious school and has letters of recommendation from well-known researchers. There’s nothing wrong with that, but it does make the post completely irrelevant for applicants from lesser-known schools. If you bomb the mGRE, are from a lower-tier school, and don’t have letters from famous mathematicians, then the odds are VERY heavily stacked against you. Pretending otherwise just gives people false hope.

They were right about one thing, though: bombing the mGRE does not necessarily imply that you’re bad at calculus and linear algebra. It just means you’re bad at the mGRE.

(Also also, this should be the least convincing thing because it’s purely anecdotal, but I know a guy who got into Notre Dame with the same low-ass score as me, but he didn’t post on the forum. Make of that what you will.)

I agree with your post, but I don't think your score is really that bad. I think past the 40 to 50 % mark at least for GROUP I schools that are not super hard to get into (Michigan or etc), then that would be a score that neither helps nor hurts you.

[bark_muffalo]

Hi guys,
I've been lurking here for a while but I decided to make an account and make a comment.
I'm a graduating senior math major at what one might call a public Ivy in the US. My math GPA is a 3.75. I've been involved in three separate research experiences, including one at my home institution that will become my honors thesis as well as a first author publication, and one at the top ranked school in my field, which I presented at a large math conference. I'm currently a grader for real analysis, and have previously graded for differential geometry (ie., I do a lot of calc). I've received offers from several schools this cycle, including an Ivy and two top-15 public schools in my field, and I'm waiting on a few more decisions post-interview.
I also did very, very poorly on the mGRE. In fact, I did exactly as poorly as some of the more-critiqued users on this forum.
I say all this not to toot my own horn or to criticize or support anyone's profile, but because I think statements I've seen such as "If you do that poorly on the mGRE, it means you don't even have a grasp of HS calculus", "the mGRE is SUPPOSED to be easy", "I got into top schools and had an xyz percentile mGRE, this shows that schools only care about the mGRE" and "if you do poorly, you'll just fail your quals and master out, like xyz person I stalked on linkedin" are incredibly harmful and not supported by evidence. First of all, the mGRE is objectively not a good assessment, and there are several studies pointing out that achievement on the mGRE is not associated with success in a graduate program. Secondly, I provide a counterexample to this idea if you don't do well, you don't even know HS calc/can't get into top programs/won't succeed. Granted, I didn't submit my mGRE most places because I know it's bad, and of course I recognize that some schools/fields place more weight on it than others, but clearly my application was strong enough to do well without it, and my success in mathematics isn't going to be ruled by whether or not I did well on this one test.
There's plenty of reasons people might be accepted or rejected from a program other than doing well/poorly on the mGRE, and there's plenty of reasons people might do poorly on the mGRE that has little to do with their intelligence or their preparation for grad school. I care about the math community being a supportive and reasonable place. We're all aspiring scientists, after all. I think we can do better than making such harmful and ill-informed statements.
(This is kind of my one hit wonder on this forum, so I'm not interested in fighting people on this, I just wanted to throw out my 2 cents. I wish I had seen something like this when I was freaking out about my own score so maybe this will help someone in the future.)

I think the point of this comment was to argue against the notion that a bad mgre score indicates someone lacks mathematical talent/won't succeed in graduate school. This is a notion some posters implicitly (and sometimes explicitly) endorse, and I think this comment is a well-articulated argument against it.

That being said, I do agree that poor performance on the exam has a greater negative impact on an applicant's chances if that applicant comes from a relatively unknown school. I think I'm learning that myself this application cycle. I'm an MA student from a school that I assume is not well known for math. My reasons for being there are good ones: I took 1 real math class as an undergrad, so my MA is basically a way of me getting the requisite undergrad knowledge and I couldn't afford to go somewhere that was going to make me pay for my degree. I made these factors clear in my SOP, but schools still seem to think "well, he's at school X and his mgre is mediocre, so...." My undergrad school has a good rep. in general, but this I assume this is irrelevant for admissions committees since I was a social science major.

Also, to follow up on asterac's points earlier about admissions prospects for female applicants, the data on this site suggests that DWFs with "low" mgre scores have tons of other impressive aspects to their application, in particular significant undergraduate research experience. It's pretty clear to me that they're not just waltzing into top programs with no reasonable justification for their admittance (I'm not saying that anyone necessarily implied this!). And, to add one more dimension to the discussion, I think female applicants may often be better writers than their male counterparts. This matters a lot.

[bark_muffalo]

I agree with your post, but I don't think your score is really that bad. I think past the 40 to 50 % mark at least for GROUP I schools that are not super hard to get into (Michigan or etc), then that would be a score that neither helps nor hurts you.

Man, I hope you're right, Eric. I got 44% and applied to several schools that sit in the lower end of the group I/higher end of the group II range (i.e., 40s-50s on US news)

[biraj123]

When you get into your #2 school but haven't heard anything from your #1 school. JUST REJECT ME ALREADY YOU COWARDS

[Integreat]

When you get into your #2 school but haven't heard anything from your #1 school. JUST REJECT ME ALREADY YOU COWARDS

Likewise, waiting for an official response from UT Austin too

[MMDE]

Before I applied I spoke a professor who I am interested in working with if I am granted admission. Would it be rude to email him directly asking about the status of my application?

[yaskhn3]

Without offending anyone, can someone kindly shed some light on how this girl ( viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4950&p=22916#p22916 ) got into Michigan?

P.S: No hateful comments please.

[lucasmiranda]

Without offending anyone, can someone kindly shed some light on how this girl ( viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4950&p=22916#p22916 ) got into Michigan?

P.S: No hateful comments please.

If you only consider her profile, it's impossible to tell, nothing stands out. Perhaps her LOR's are really really good (and were written by famous professors) or maybe she knows someone there that recommended her admission...

[bark_muffalo]

Before I applied I spoke a professor who I am interested in working with if I am granted admission. Would it be rude to email him directly asking about the status of my application?

I would ask if they know anything about the admissions committee's timeline for sending out decisions. If you ask that question politely, it would be fine. It also gives you a chance to reiterate your interest in the program, and in working with that professor in particular.

However, since this person may not be on the admissions committee, it might be better to just contact the director of graduate studies. They will know what's going on.

[yaskhn3]

Without offending anyone, can someone kindly shed some light on how this girl ( viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4950&p=22916#p22916 ) got into Michigan?

P.S: No hateful comments please.

If you only consider her profile, it's impossible to tell, nothing stands out. Perhaps her LOR's are really really good (and were written by famous professors) or maybe she knows someone there that recommended her admission...

I guess. But it still looks very interesting. A not so great GPA with a not so famous institute with poor GRE general and mgre scores, coupled with no research experience getting into Michigan. I know girls who had better profiles than this and got rejected from Michigan. Clearly something more than gender is in play. Also can amazing LORs negate all drawbacks?

[EricAndre]

Without offending anyone, can someone kindly shed some light on how this girl ( viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4950&p=22916#p22916 ) got into Michigan?

P.S: No hateful comments please.

If you only consider her profile, it's impossible to tell, nothing stands out. Perhaps her LOR's are really really good (and were written by famous professors) or maybe she knows someone there that recommended her admission...

I guess. But it still looks very interesting. A not so great GPA with a not so famous institute with poor GRE general and mgre scores, coupled with no research experience getting into Michigan. I know girls who had better profiles than this and got rejected from Michigan. Clearly something more than gender is in play. Also can amazing LORs negate all drawbacks?

How do you even know its real? Especially since everyone was having a big fight over nicole being real and everyone here stressed up the wazoo, I can imagine that someone made a fake profile for some cheap laughs.

[yaskhn3]

If you only consider her profile, it's impossible to tell, nothing stands out. Perhaps her LOR's are really really good (and were written by famous professors) or maybe she knows someone there that recommended her admission...

I guess. But it still looks very interesting. A not so great GPA with a not so famous institute with poor GRE general and mgre scores, coupled with no research experience getting into Michigan. I know girls who had better profiles than this and got rejected from Michigan. Clearly something more than gender is in play. Also can amazing LORs negate all drawbacks?

How do you even know its real? Especially since everyone was having a big fight over nicole being real and everyone here stressed up the wazoo, I can imagine that someone made a fake profile for some cheap laughs.

Lmao. Why do people do this especially since everyone's so stressing over results. Trolls please switch to different platforms, people are tensed here already. Guess I need to stop taking people for their words now

[fluffball]

Not fake, but still kind of mysterious: I'm American, female, have decent numbers (170/169/800) and nontrivial research experience. So far I've been either accepted or waitlisted at pretty good Group 1s, but evidently I'm not good enough for Boston College. Go figure.

[SKS2s17fa]

Without offending anyone, can someone kindly shed some light on how this girl ( viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4950&p=22916#p22916 ) got into Michigan?

P.S: No hateful comments please.

I must say her profile is not strong, especially the GRE math part and mGRE are very poor. She might has some many advanced courses or original research which she didn’t mention.

[SKS2s17fa]

Not fake, but still kind of mysterious: I'm American, female, have decent numbers (170/169/800) and nontrivial research experience. So far I've been either accepted or waitlisted at pretty good Group 1s, but evidently I'm not good enough for Boston College. Go figure.

Maybe they think you are overqualified? Or your interest does not match BC’s professors’ research areas?

[EricAndre]

tfw you are sitting on no acceptances. I want to fall asleep and wake up April 15th, this wait is killing me.

[fluffball]

Not fake, but still kind of mysterious: I'm American, female, have decent numbers (170/169/800) and nontrivial research experience. So far I've been either accepted or waitlisted at pretty good Group 1s, but evidently I'm not good enough for Boston College. Go figure.

Maybe they think you are overqualified? Or your interest does not match BC’s professors’ research areas?

Ha, thanks for the compliment. It's a good fit for interest and I did contact a prof before applying.
Who knows what they were thinking? But if they're so sure they don't want me, then I'm 100% sure I wouldn't have been happy there.
The moral to the story is that this whole game is a real crapshoot, so nobody should take anything personally.

[Oops-ilon]

fluffball, I have a friend who went to Boston College and their program is really small. Apparently they're trying to be more competitive and are getting really stringent on acceptances. I think they are similar to Emory where the competitiveness outmatches their perceived "rank". All that to say, don't let it get you down!

[nicole2]

Without offending anyone, can someone kindly shed some light on how this girl ( viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4950&p=22916#p22916 ) got into Michigan?

P.S: No hateful comments please.

The link directs me to the main thread, you didn't specify which post.
I hope you guys are not aiming your crosshairs at me again.

[fluffball]

fluffball, I have a friend who went to Boston College and their program is really small. Apparently they're trying to be more competitive and are getting really stringent on acceptances. I think they are similar to Emory where the competitiveness outmatches their perceived "rank". All that to say, don't let it get you down!

Thanks Oops-ilon. Emory is still a top-50ish program and BC is in triple digits somewhere, although I know it's ranked that low mostly because of its size.

[ponchan]

fluffball, I have a friend who went to Boston College and their program is really small. Apparently they're trying to be more competitive and are getting really stringent on acceptances. I think they are similar to Emory where the competitiveness outmatches their perceived "rank". All that to say, don't let it get you down!

Thanks Oops-ilon. Emory is still a top-50ish program and BC is in triple digits somewhere, although I know it's ranked that low mostly because of its size.

BC is not ranked on US News because they were somehow able to opt out of it. But it is a very competitive program despite its size. Look up the faculty on mathscinet. The first full professor listed (alphabetically) has 7 (7!) Duke papers, and 3 Inventiones. The next has 5 Inventiones, 4 Annals, and 3 Duke.

[bark_muffalo]

fluffball, I have a friend who went to Boston College and their program is really small. Apparently they're trying to be more competitive and are getting really stringent on acceptances. I think they are similar to Emory where the competitiveness outmatches their perceived "rank". All that to say, don't let it get you down!

Thanks Oops-ilon. Emory is still a top-50ish program and BC is in triple digits somewhere, although I know it's ranked that low mostly because of its size.

Also, it's in a place lots of people would like to live, which I am certain affects how many applications a school gets.

[fluffball]

BC is not ranked on US News because they were somehow able to opt out of it. But it is a very competitive program despite its size. Look up the faculty on mathscinet. The first full professor listed (alphabetically) has 7 (7!) Duke papers, and 3 Inventiones. The next has 5 Inventiones, 4 Annals, and 3 Duke.

Interesting if Math only opted out, because other programs didn't and BC is happy to brag about it: https://www.bc.edu/bc-web/bcnews/campus ... kings.html
How do you know they opted out? If it's true that they're trying to be more competitive, wouldn't they want the ranking?
I know they have some really good faculty, which is why I applied. But lots of lower-ranked programs have really good faculty.

[bark_muffalo]

BC is not ranked on US News because they were somehow able to opt out of it. But it is a very competitive program despite its size. Look up the faculty on mathscinet. The first full professor listed (alphabetically) has 7 (7!) Duke papers, and 3 Inventiones. The next has 5 Inventiones, 4 Annals, and 3 Duke.

Interesting if Math only opted out, because other programs didn't and BC is happy to brag about it: https://www.bc.edu/bc-web/bcnews/campus ... kings.html
How do you know they opted out? If it's true that they're trying to be more competitive, wouldn't they want the ranking?

Maybe not if they think they'll be significantly further down the list than where they think they should be. Those rankings are pretty much hot garbage anyway. I think they are based on responses to a survey sent out to math profs across the US asking them to rank programs, and I think the response rate is abysmal. Yes, the schools that should be up at the top are (Princeton, Stanford, etc.), but after the top 25 or so I think things start to fall apart.

[ponchan]

BC is not ranked on US News because they were somehow able to opt out of it. But it is a very competitive program despite its size. Look up the faculty on mathscinet. The first full professor listed (alphabetically) has 7 (7!) Duke papers, and 3 Inventiones. The next has 5 Inventiones, 4 Annals, and 3 Duke.

Interesting if Math only opted out, because other programs didn't and BC is happy to brag about it: https://www.bc.edu/bc-web/bcnews/campus ... kings.html
How do you know they opted out? If it's true that they're trying to be more competitive, wouldn't they want the ranking?
I know they have some really good faculty, which is why I applied. But lots of lower-ranked programs have really good faculty.

I know they opted out from a faculty member there. I'm not sure how they did this. And, no, not with how the current US News rankings work, since they only penalize small programs. Also, it's not just that some of the people there are "really good" -- they're among the top in their field.

[LoCelso]

BC is not ranked on US News because they were somehow able to opt out of it. But it is a very competitive program despite its size. Look up the faculty on mathscinet. The first full professor listed (alphabetically) has 7 (7!) Duke papers, and 3 Inventiones. The next has 5 Inventiones, 4 Annals, and 3 Duke.

Interesting if Math only opted out, because other programs didn't and BC is happy to brag about it: https://www.bc.edu/bc-web/bcnews/campus ... kings.html
How do you know they opted out? If it's true that they're trying to be more competitive, wouldn't they want the ranking?
I know they have some really good faculty, which is why I applied. But lots of lower-ranked programs have really good faculty.

BC only starts the math graduate program about 7 or 8 years ago, so there are probably not enough data about students' outcomes for it to have a fair rank on US News.

[ponchan]

BC is not ranked on US News because they were somehow able to opt out of it. But it is a very competitive program despite its size. Look up the faculty on mathscinet. The first full professor listed (alphabetically) has 7 (7!) Duke papers, and 3 Inventiones. The next has 5 Inventiones, 4 Annals, and 3 Duke.

Interesting if Math only opted out, because other programs didn't and BC is happy to brag about it: https://www.bc.edu/bc-web/bcnews/campus ... kings.html
How do you know they opted out? If it's true that they're trying to be more competitive, wouldn't they want the ranking?
I know they have some really good faculty, which is why I applied. But lots of lower-ranked programs have really good faculty.

BC only starts the math graduate program about 7 or 8 years ago, so there are probably not enough data about students' outcomes for it to have a fair rank on US News.

US News isn't based on student outcome. It's based on "peer assessment" for which there's only a 30% response rate.

[lucasmiranda]

Without offending anyone, can someone kindly shed some light on how this girl ( viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4950&p=22916#p22916 ) got into Michigan?

P.S: No hateful comments please.

The link directs me to the main thread, you didn't specify which post.
I hope you guys are not aiming your crosshairs at me again.

It's not about you. Also, congrats on your admissions!

[LoCelso]

Interesting if Math only opted out, because other programs didn't and BC is happy to brag about it: https://www.bc.edu/bc-web/bcnews/campus ... kings.html
How do you know they opted out? If it's true that they're trying to be more competitive, wouldn't they want the ranking?
I know they have some really good faculty, which is why I applied. But lots of lower-ranked programs have really good faculty.

BC only starts the math graduate program about 7 or 8 years ago, so there are probably not enough data about students' outcomes for it to have a fair rank on US News.

US News isn't based on student outcome. It's based on "peer assessment" for which there's only a 30% response rate.

"Peer assessment" might be based on student outcome though I think it's hard to rank such a new program.

[JK10]

[chrisps1992]

Emergency question: Will programs start background screening after enrollment? I once involved into some underage drinking issue. It is not in my academic transcript, but I believe it is in my discpline record. Will schools have access to this?

Most places I’ve applied to ask if you’ve been involved with any disciplinary action and explicitly state you could be dismissed for lying.

[JK10]

Emergency question: Will programs start background screening after enrollment? I once involved into some underage drinking issue. It is not in my academic transcript, but I believe it is in my discpline record. Will schools have access to this?

Most places I’ve applied to ask if you’ve been involved with any disciplinary action and explicitly state you could be dismissed for lying.

[JK10]

Emergency question: Will programs start background screening after enrollment? I once involved into some underage drinking issue. It is not in my academic transcript, but I believe it is in my discpline record. Will schools have access to this?

Most places I’ve applied to ask if you’ve been involved with any disciplinary action and explicitly state you could be dismissed for lying.

[JK10]

Another question. I am currently waiting for a bunch of waitlist. What will happen if I get an offer from waitlist after I already admitted attending another program?

[ADlibertyRP]

I have seen results for schools I have applied to but have heard nothing back myself (CU-Boulder, Oregon, UC-Davis). Should I reach out to these schools at this point to inquire or is it likely that they are doing rolling admissions/rejections?

[bark_muffalo]

I have seen results for schools I have applied to but have heard nothing back myself (CU-Boulder, Oregon, UC-Davis). Should I reach out to these schools at this point to inquire or is it likely that they are doing rolling admissions/rejections?

I reached out to CU Boulder and they said that since they've sent out their first round of offers I'm basically on a waitlist. I would assume the same is true for the other schools as well

[finite]

Vanderbilt told me they'll send out their initial round of offers around the end of February. Not sure what's up with the acceptances posted on The Grad Café.

[Integreat]

Emergency question: Will programs start background screening after enrollment? I once involved into some underage drinking issue. It is not in my academic transcript, but I believe it is in my discpline record. Will schools have access to this?

Most places I’ve applied to ask if you’ve been involved with any disciplinary action and explicitly state you could be dismissed for lying.

I can't remember which schools, but definitely some I applied to only had you detail felony charges.

[EricAndre]

Well, I finally got in somewhere that satisfies me. I'm still waiting on UIC though, but I'm glad that I'm not screwed.

[Junaid456]

To those who got into UC Davis (pure or applied): any word on funding?

[ahhhhmeh]

tfw you are sitting on no acceptances. I want to fall asleep and wake up April 15th, this wait is killing me.

Same here

[asterac]

Not fake, but still kind of mysterious: I'm American, female, have decent numbers (170/169/800) and nontrivial research experience. So far I've been either accepted or waitlisted at pretty good Group 1s, but evidently I'm not good enough for Boston College. Go figure.

Yo, Boston College is an extremely good program, only a little slept on cause it’s new. I wouldn’t feel bad or confused about that result. They’ve pulled in incredible people, and the students who are there now are getting to work on very interesting problems.

Edit: Oh, I guess others have already said as much.

There’s this grad student at my uni who has repeatedly demonstrated to me that he’s extremely knowledgeable about the quality of advisors/researchers in different programs. He previously attended UT Austin and loved it there. He mentioned BC in the same breath as Austin, if that gives you some idea.

[Lowdimbeing]

Hiya! Late to this thread but when will BU and BC send out their acceptances? Have gotten into some schools but really wanna live in the NE so can’t make decisions before I find out. Also what’s the word on which has the better math department? Thanks guys!

[analysister]

UNL sending out promotional emails is cruel. Just had a mini heart attack

[SKS2s17fa]

A weird thing: My phone is banned from this forum. I don’t know what happened.

[yaskhn3]

Recieved a generic reply from Notre Dame:

" We do not have a set date when decisions are made. Programs typically make their first round of offers by late February or early March. Applicants not included in the first round of offers may still receive an offer, although this may occur as late as April 15 or shortly thereafter. "

[chrisps1992]

Recieved a generic reply from Notre Dame:

" We do not have a set date when decisions are made. Programs typically make their first round of offers by late February or early March. Applicants not included in the first round of offers may still receive an offer, although this may occur as late as April 15 or shortly thereafter. "

Basically they’re telling us not to hold our breath.

[ahhhhmeh]

When the lowest rated universities send out offers and you haven’t heard back from anywhere

[SKS2s17fa]

When the lowest rated universities send out offers and you haven’t heard back from anywhere

I am the same, except for several rejections and an offer outside math. BTW, what about your home institution? I’ve heard that my home institution releases news super late.